October 27, 2007...5:43 am

“Prove There Is No God.”

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No. You prove that there is one. It is not the responsibility of an atheist to disprove god. Allow me to advise atheists in a counter-argument strategy to what could seem like a dead end in these kinds of arguments:

I. The Non-Puzzle

When you dispute the existence of god (we’ll speak generally about the Abrahamic religion’s god(s) here), you will so often be confronted by this conundrum:

“There is no God.”

“Prove it.”

Now, there are many variations on this. The more reasoned fellow may say, “Right, I agree…I have to agree, that you can’t prove god exists. [note here that we immediately fall away from the evangelists and creationists here, and others] But there is no proof that god does not exist. So I guess the whole conversation is moot. And we can move on.”

No. The conversation is not moot. We’re not at a standstill. I’m not a fundamental atheist without a leg to stand on, and my imaginary moderate is not a tolerant liberal who’s walking on eggshells so as not to offend.

The imaginary moderate/agnostic is being unreasonable, idiotically demanding and, in the back of their head, wishful.

II. The Teapot

This is where Bertrand Russell comes in with his celestial teapot argument. Russell, a philosopher, mathematician, linguist, and Nobel laureate (the guy Noam Chomsky couldn’t hold a candle to), invented a logistical equation:

1) A teapot orbits the earth.

2) It is too small to be detected by current technologies.

So…

“There is no teapot.”

“You can’t prove there is no teapot.”

“It’s a teapot! You prove there is a teapot.”

Russell adds this:

3) Two thousand years of documentation on the teapot.

Here, the teapot becomes defensible. Dawkins would add (and I believe he does in his God Delusion), that not only is the existence of the teapot defensible, but it would be taboo to attack it. Good point, Dick.

Let’s get back to basics, Dawkins added in for good measure:

“I can’t produce any information that God exists, but you can’t disprove him.”

“No, I can’t disprove god. But I also can’t disprove bigfoot, the tooth fairy, santa claus, or the possibility of a teapot floating in the sky. It’s not my job to prove that god does not exist. It’s your job to prove that he does.”

III. The Matrix

I love to bring up The Matrix in a situation like this. Here’s how you can, too.

“There is no god.”

“You can’t prove that.”

“No, but suppose I told you that there we are all in giant placental tanks, our bodies plugged and our waste drained. We are like cattle, feeding a giant earth filled with robots making up a collective intelligence. We perceive that we are in a dull, scraped-out world where everything sucks. It’s called the Matrix. And we’re fooled into believing that we”re living our own lives, that we have free will, but in reality we are mere cogs in the machine. Everything we see and touch is fake. There was three movies made about this predicament, a comic book, and a collection of cruddy animes too. It’s all there.

“Could you disprove that? Could you prove me wrong? How? You could pinch me, but that’s all included in the package of being plugged in to the matrix. You could get one of your friends to tell me that I’m insane, but that’s merely opinion. If I believed that I was in the matrix, you couldn’t do a damn thing to prove me wrong.”

“But you would be wrong.”

“Prove it.”

“No. It’s obvious we’re not in the matrix. It’s all made up.”

“So is [insert religion here]. There’s no more or less evidence to support or deny that the matrix exists. The matrix could exist. But would you take my word for it? Would you take anyone’s word for it? We don’t need to take anyone’s word on gravity, on bacteria, on animals. It’s right there in front of us.”

“But I have the feeling that god is there.”

“Well I have the feeling that we’re in the matrix. Yeah, it’s not good enough, is it. You could have the feeling that a guy wants to go out with you and be wrong about that, too. So, no. It’s not my responsibility to prove that such a mammoth claim that there is a supernatural deity. It’s your job to prove it. If you can’t, then why do you believe?”

This is called the matrix incumbent. It’s designed to level the playing field, by showing that there is no difference between either god or the matrix. both are supernatural and unprovable. Both are pretty far-fetched. Both demand evidence. One has a couple of thousand years behind it. The other has a couple of horrible films behind it. But there is no difference in the amount of evidence. It’s a modernization of the teapot argument and an unraveling of Dick Dawkins’ refinements thereof. It’s like the shaggy dog teapot, and it boils down to this:

“Prove there is no god.”

“Okay, but first, I want you to prove that we’re not in the matrix.”

While they search the absurdity of your comment for meaning, then slowly realize that you’ve simply thrown their idiotic challenge back in their face, you should take the time to hope that this might have helped them think to themself: “Hey, maybe I shouldn’t be asking atheists to prove there is no god. Maybe it should be me who proves there is one.”

Please start thinking that believers! The sooner you do, the sooner you’ll begin that journey towards the inevitable: a careful climb down the ladder right next to that leap of faith you took.

15 Comments

  • It’s implied that a Christian/Muslim/Jew who is actively indoctrinating you or someone you know. If so, they should cut it out. I don’t believe it should be anybody’s crusade to force someone to accept a belief. But is seems counteproductive to head-butt a believer with the exact same snobbish challenge that they gave you. “Prove God doesn’t exist.” “No, YOU prove that he DOES.” I think it’d be wiser just simply to say “no, that’s a ridiculous challenge and an even more ridiculous caveat for your faith.” Then, if at all possible, leave it at that. We don’t need a zealot talking to a zealot. It’s like fighting fire with fire. There’s just fire. No one learns anything that way. At least that’s my opinion.

  • 1) “It’s implied that a Christian/Muslim/Jew who is actively indoctrinating you or someone you know.”

    Where is that implied? It’s not implied in this post. It is implied in this post that there are those who believe in God who would shoulder the non-believer with the burden of proof (or disproof, in this case).

    2) “head-butt a believer with the exact same snobbish challenge that they gave you.”

    The idea is to offer the believer a similar challenge, but one they really SHOULD be responsible for, if they are to make such ludicrous claims, and judge others for not following by their moral guidelines or beliefs.

    3) “‘no, that’s a ridiculous challenge and an even more ridiculous caveat for your faith.’”

    I assume you think dismissive diminution of the person’s faith is the way to go? Anyway, it’s not a caveat of the Judeo-Christian faith that atheists disprove their god. I assume you mean that the caveat of faith is that one must HAVE faith, but that, I suppose, is the definition of faith in the first place: to believe something without evidence. So you propose a direct attack on a person’s faith is the more positive way to take it? That THAT will be the respectful way to disagree or debate a believer? I disagree.

    3) “We don’t need a zealot talking to a zealot. It’s like fighting fire with fire. There’s just fire.”

    a) Offer me evidence that I am a zealot. Do I bomb churches, stand on the streets heckling people of faith, shove my propaganda down people’s throats? This is here for people to read. I am not forcing it on anyone, and I certainly am not trying to, for instance, incorporate a supernatural deity’s opinions into my country’s law-making system.

    b) No, it’s not a zealot talking to a zealot. It’s a believer talking to a non-believer, and a non-believer not hesitating when he or she cannot “disprove God” saying: “Well, I guess you’re right…I can’t disprove Him, so we’ll have to leave it at that.” Instead: They are making a reasonable challenge in the face of unreason.

  • Hi, I’m just a Christian that noticed some open ends to your argument strategies.

    Most religions are based on our Faith where as Atheism is based solely upon Science and Reason (this is just from a quote made from the renowned Atheist, Christopher Hitchens) . If you cannot use the very thing Atheism is based on to credit your beliefs (science), I do not think it is a very stable belief system to get into. Christians on the other hand use faith to credit their religion. They realize that Science cannot prove everything, since its uses have reasonable limitations. (You have implied that yourself when you said that it would also be impossible to disprove the existence of Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy) However, Atheists do not like associating Faith with their belief system (taken from Christopher Hitchens again), yet they need faith to believe that there is no God, just as Christians need faith to believe there is a God.
    Hence their religion is not solely based on Science and Reason, but also on faith.

    Faith can be defined as a belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence.

    For the many people that have become Atheists for the sole purpose of finding a more logical belief system to follow, Atheism is not the one for you.

    Atheism cannot say that it is anymore credible than Christianity is, and also definitely cannot say that their beliefs are far more logical than Christianity. That is why many Atheists, such as Professor Antony Flew, have turned away from Atheism. Flew has concluded that some sort of intelligence or first cause must have created the universe. “A super-intelligence is the only good explanation for the origin of life and the complexity of nature”, Flew said in a telephone interview from England.

  • Jim,

    Atheism is NOT a belief system, nor is it a religion. Atheists don’t BELIEVE in anything. They recognize things based on fact. Atheism is the opposite of Theism. Theists think that there is a deity or deities; Atheists do not. Pretty simple.

  • the sad thing is that both side are so childing

    “THERE IS”…
    “THERE ISN’T”…
    “THERE IS”…
    “THERE ISN’T”…
    “THERE IS”…
    “THERE ISN’T”…
    “……………MOOOOOOOOM…………..”

    stop wasting time, for god sake, i mean for science sake!

    • I apologize if you view the post as “chiding.”
      Trying to shut down this discussion by mocking both sides of the argument, however, is boring and really an anti-intellectual copout.
      I do not think this is a waste of time.

  • mohamed el attar

    ask the beutiful garden and the river runs ?
    ask the birds and animals ?
    ask the snake who do you live with poision inside you ?
    ask the sky who make you blue not grean ?
    ask the moon who make you white at night ?
    ask the human who give you your eyes and mouth and who give you life ?
    you will hear in one sound
    allah the one god
    beleive in him to win
    donot put your hand on your eyes in the day and say there is no sun donot be like big oaf think for one miniute no one help you in judgement day marks lenen they canot help you
    i hope you allah the one god bless you all
    i can prove islam to any one in the world from its correct sources and i can burn athesim
    athesim in word
    earth without sky
    night without day
    and sadness forever
    with my best wishs mohamed el attar

  • mohamed el attar

    ?

  • i can prove to you there is a god

  • I agree with Jim, atheism requires faith in something you can not prove. I very much doubt there is a God or a teapot, I can not know this, so I ascribe to agnosticism. Love Russell analogue though

    • “Atheism requires faith in something you can not prove” – I have recently been alerted to the idea that atheism, and atheists, are fighting for a “cause.” It’s all semantics, I suppose, but I am willing to see atheism as a cause- as far as raising consciousness goes. But one doesn’t need faith to be an atheist. I do not believe in no-god. I simply know, as I know that there is no Wonderland behind the looking class. Must you have belief to not believe in the Matrix? You can not prove that we are not in the Matrix, but you do not need to have faith in no-Matrix. Do you need belief not to believe in coming in the coming apocalypse of 2012?

  • I don’t belive in god either but I don’t argue with the people that do why? Because I hve no prove that there is no god until I find prove that there is no god ill let religions fight with each other from my point of view it seems funny how they fight to get as many people as they can

    • Isaac, your live and let live philosophy seems to be working for you. You are bemused by the behavior of other religious groups as they fight it out on the battlefield of ideology. I’m with you on that. I find it funny that people have such a huge problem with scientologists when their own religions are so absurd.
      I suppose the essay was meant finally to force the burden of proof on to the believer, and not the person walking around with an absence of belief.


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